Sometimes it has such passion behind it that it wants to be told so quickly that just to get the idea down, one must look past everything and pout the concept to the page.

This I think is what separates bad writing from story. Bad writing from a person who wants to be a writer is rare, but without story, the best one can hope for is formula. Bad writing from a seasoned author usually occurs when the passion to tell the story, which is ultimately wordless, meets the intersection of time for word choice. That feeling and energy simply overrides all the discipline governing craft and word choice.

Without story, words are useless.

I have to say, however, that this post was written in reflection of my quest to pursue good writing. And I’ve realized in the wake of all this that my constant ‘improvement’ is all for nothing if I can’t tell you a good tale.

I also think we’re referring to two levels of style. I’m talking about basic writing competence, and you’re talking about the higher levels – narrative and the angles with which to tackle a story.

I’m not quite there yet, Lee. But I’ll be pondering on the interview.

May I quote a brilliant – yes, brilliant, and I use that epithet very rarely indeed – writer, thinker and teacher, Marilynne Robinson?

‘I feel there is a great deal of highly conventional thinking in almost every area of life that must be discarded in order for a writer to make something with integrity in terms of that writer’s understanding.’

And

‘I always tell my students that you can do anything you can get away with, that implausibility is a problem of style. If people bring issues of plausibility to bear on what you’re doing, you’re not doing it well enough.’

She states the latter in the context of a question about her use of the omniscient first-person (!) in Housekeeping – an outstanding novel – but I think it applies to all aspects of writing.

Here’s the link to the full interview with her:

http://www.ewu.edu/willowsprings/interviews/robinson.pdf

@Lee: I’m not talking about style here. Style is harder to generalize, seeing as everyone has different style anyway. What I’m talking about are the basics of writing – how clear you bring your story/ideas across.

I suppose an analogy of an academic essay can be used here – I may have brilliant ideas but if my writing sucks it won’t do me any good, because you’d be cringing as you read the article. But if I write brilliantly about fluff no amount of work is going to help me.

I understand style and writing are closely interrelated. But you’ve got to admit there are core elements of writing that every writer must adhere to, and can improve upon – avoiding purple prose, writing gripping dialogue, clever use of words. The hard bits would be character development and pacing and other things similar to that.

@Allan: no, I haven’t heard of it, but I promise you I’ll check it out.

@Lethe:

As a matter of fact even the language isn’t of primary importance. The really important things are the ideas that lie behind the words.

True. Writing without ‘ideas’ is useless. But ultimately if we’re going to have any impact both the ideas and the writing must be good. And that’s something I’m striving towards. I’ll get there. Someday.

I believe the journey to be worth it.

“You’ve hit it exactly!” said Dai-yu. “As a matter of fact even the language isn’t of primary importance. The really important things are the ideas that lie behind the words. If the ideas that lie behind it are genuine, there’s no need to embellish the language for the poem to be a good one. That’s what they mean when they talk about ‘not letting the words harm the meaning’.”

Cao Xueqin

From The Story of the Stone, Vol. II
(translated by David Hawkes)

Master the stuff, the words will freely follow.

Horace (qtd. in Montaigne)

The things themselves carry the words along.

Cicero (qtd. in Montaigne)

We can substitute “story” for “the stuff” that Horace speaks of or “the things themselves” that Cicero remarks on. The problem with most writers is that they don’t know their subject matter well enough. They’re not immersed in the story enough to tell it. At that point, words aren’t going to matter.