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	<title>Comments on: To Change Publishing, Make Publishers Obsolete</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete</link>
	<description>Hacking Publishing</description>
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		<title>By: Eli James</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5480</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jun 2010 18:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5480</guid>
		<description>I think there&#039;s only one way to respond to that:

=) =) =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there&#8217;s only one way to respond to that:</p>
<p>=) =) =)</p>
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		<title>By: Jaftali</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5478</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaftali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 May 2010 21:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5478</guid>
		<description>V. -impressive-. Me am professional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>V. -impressive-. Me am professional.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaftali</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5476</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaftali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 18:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5476</guid>
		<description>Fair enough! I agree with much of the diagnosis, and I&#039;ve got my own personal issues that I rarely see addressed, though those tend to be sorta &#039;within the beast&#039; problems about how publishing works instead of an entirely new model.

Sometimes I wonder if, during the advent of television, novelists and publishers were in a frenzy thinking, &#039;We need to figure how to get novels on these things!&#039; And in the end, it&#039;s a different medium. I very much hope and expect that we&#039;ll see a different medium of storytelling on some future multi-media platform, but I&#039;m not sure it&#039;ll any way supplant a single novel, any more than TV shows do. 

Now I&#039;m off to see what Pandamian is! This site is v. impression, so I&#039;m sure I won&#039;t be disappointed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough! I agree with much of the diagnosis, and I&#8217;ve got my own personal issues that I rarely see addressed, though those tend to be sorta &#8216;within the beast&#8217; problems about how publishing works instead of an entirely new model.</p>
<p>Sometimes I wonder if, during the advent of television, novelists and publishers were in a frenzy thinking, &#8216;We need to figure how to get novels on these things!&#8217; And in the end, it&#8217;s a different medium. I very much hope and expect that we&#8217;ll see a different medium of storytelling on some future multi-media platform, but I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;ll any way supplant a single novel, any more than TV shows do. </p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m off to see what Pandamian is! This site is v. impression, so I&#8217;m sure I won&#8217;t be disappointed!</p>
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		<title>By: Eli James</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5475</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 14:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5475</guid>
		<description>Hi there Jaftali. I&#039;ve been neglecting Novelr quite a bit the last couple of weeks (due to work on Pandamian) but - just as a quick response: the whole point of this essay (and Pandamian itself) is to figure out if there are viable alternatives to the current model.

As for whether authors selling directly to readers makes sense ... well, we&#039;ll see, won&#039;t we? ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there Jaftali. I&#8217;ve been neglecting Novelr quite a bit the last couple of weeks (due to work on Pandamian) but &#8211; just as a quick response: the whole point of this essay (and Pandamian itself) is to figure out if there are viable alternatives to the current model.</p>
<p>As for whether authors selling directly to readers makes sense &#8230; well, we&#8217;ll see, won&#8217;t we? ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Jaftali</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5474</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaftali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 May 2010 14:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5474</guid>
		<description>I think the idea of authors selling directly to readers makes about as much sense as architects selling directly to homebuyers. 

I&#039;m late to the conversation, and need to inform myself more thoroughly (and the dog I have in this fight is that I make a living as a novelist), but I sometimes get the feeling that people imagine that all the steps of publication other than the writer finishing her or his &#039;final&#039; draft are unimportant.

The publishing industry is tremendously inefficient. But I&#039;ve yet to see even the vague outline of a real solution. (Haven&#039;t finished browsing your site yet, though!) One thing that the industry does fairly well is act as a filter, and every online community I&#039;ve seen that tries to approximate that service ends up highlighting some deeply shitty writing. I mean far, far worse than the deeply shitting writing that -does- get published. And without the compensatory ability to promote the good stuff, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the idea of authors selling directly to readers makes about as much sense as architects selling directly to homebuyers. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m late to the conversation, and need to inform myself more thoroughly (and the dog I have in this fight is that I make a living as a novelist), but I sometimes get the feeling that people imagine that all the steps of publication other than the writer finishing her or his &#8216;final&#8217; draft are unimportant.</p>
<p>The publishing industry is tremendously inefficient. But I&#8217;ve yet to see even the vague outline of a real solution. (Haven&#8217;t finished browsing your site yet, though!) One thing that the industry does fairly well is act as a filter, and every online community I&#8217;ve seen that tries to approximate that service ends up highlighting some deeply shitty writing. I mean far, far worse than the deeply shitting writing that -does- get published. And without the compensatory ability to promote the good stuff, too.</p>
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		<title>By: G.S. Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5294</link>
		<dc:creator>G.S. Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 00:48:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5294</guid>
		<description>Eli my man, you know I have your back on whatever you go forward with.  I&#039;m all over it like a fat kid on smarties.  I thought about making that PC and ironic, but it just doesn&#039;t have the same impact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eli my man, you know I have your back on whatever you go forward with.  I&#8217;m all over it like a fat kid on smarties.  I thought about making that PC and ironic, but it just doesn&#8217;t have the same impact.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan Oda</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5291</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Oda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 22:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5291</guid>
		<description>mmmmm. Sought is dutch no? I meant searched. I&#039;m tired. Sorry for that. Oh how I wished you had an edit butto,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mmmmm. Sought is dutch no? I meant searched. I&#8217;m tired. Sorry for that. Oh how I wished you had an edit butto,</p>
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		<title>By: Jan Oda</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5290</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Oda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 21:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5290</guid>
		<description>@Eli: You do realize I&#039;m bursting with curiosity now do you?

As for Baen, I thought I&#039;d referred to them here before, but I&#039;m happy to refresh your memory. Maybe one of us should mail them about the programming issue :p. Though I imagine their users might be fond of the design, because it is soo wrong in a nerdy way.

I do wonder however, why it seems that it&#039;s often the genre publishers who aren&#039;t afraid to embrace new things. 

In one of my recent classes we had someone from a big dutch publisher, who told us that on Bol.com (the Dutch amazon equivalent), people sought on genre most. 
10 minutes later the person explained to us that his company had unexpectedly acquired a strong brand in the thriller genre, so they branched out and attracted literary fiction authors.
And then they wonder why the book business is going through rough times. The sheer stupidity of publishers sometimes baffles me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Eli: You do realize I&#8217;m bursting with curiosity now do you?</p>
<p>As for Baen, I thought I&#8217;d referred to them here before, but I&#8217;m happy to refresh your memory. Maybe one of us should mail them about the programming issue :p. Though I imagine their users might be fond of the design, because it is soo wrong in a nerdy way.</p>
<p>I do wonder however, why it seems that it&#8217;s often the genre publishers who aren&#8217;t afraid to embrace new things. </p>
<p>In one of my recent classes we had someone from a big dutch publisher, who told us that on Bol.com (the Dutch amazon equivalent), people sought on genre most.<br />
10 minutes later the person explained to us that his company had unexpectedly acquired a strong brand in the thriller genre, so they branched out and attracted literary fiction authors.<br />
And then they wonder why the book business is going through rough times. The sheer stupidity of publishers sometimes baffles me.</p>
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		<title>By: Eli James</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5287</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5287</guid>
		<description>@Gavin: One of the problems, certainly. I&#039;ve got a rough idea of how to solve it, but the solution&#039;s going to be a little ... unorthodox. We&#039;ll see, in a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Gavin: One of the problems, certainly. I&#8217;ve got a rough idea of how to solve it, but the solution&#8217;s going to be a little &#8230; unorthodox. We&#8217;ll see, in a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: G.S. Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5285</link>
		<dc:creator>G.S. Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5285</guid>
		<description>So old publishers solved the problem &quot;how do we find an audience for books&quot; by over-producing them, putting them in multiple stores, and then hoping someone wanders over and buys one.  INEFFICIENT.  (I&#039;m summarizing).  That was their solution for the problem.

Online, production costs go way way way down.  So the problem to solve is bringing an audience to web fiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So old publishers solved the problem &#8220;how do we find an audience for books&#8221; by over-producing them, putting them in multiple stores, and then hoping someone wanders over and buys one.  INEFFICIENT.  (I&#8217;m summarizing).  That was their solution for the problem.</p>
<p>Online, production costs go way way way down.  So the problem to solve is bringing an audience to web fiction.</p>
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		<title>By: Eli James</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5282</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Apr 2010 07:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5282</guid>
		<description>@Nancy: Yes I&#039;ve read that article before, and I remember bookmarking it. =) Shirky just makes a lot of sense.

@Steve: Yes we do. I intend to build equivalents.

@Derek: Thank you for the kind words. =) I don&#039;t personally think a move to ebook readers is enough to force the publishing industry to change - thus far publishers have managed to fool themselves into thinking ebooks are an extension of the old problem - the problem they&#039;ve been set up to solve. 

@Jan: Thank you so much for the heads up. MeiLin was the last person to point Baen out to me - but I had &lt;em&gt;no&lt;/em&gt; idea they were this progressive, (and so many years ago, to boot!).

I think the problem with their execution is the lack of technical knowledge? They should&#039;ve hired a bunch of programmers to do stuff for them - Baen&#039;s well positioned to be the next Tor.com, if they play their cards right.

Will keep them in mind when and if we need to cut deals, in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nancy: Yes I&#8217;ve read that article before, and I remember bookmarking it. =) Shirky just makes a lot of sense.</p>
<p>@Steve: Yes we do. I intend to build equivalents.</p>
<p>@Derek: Thank you for the kind words. =) I don&#8217;t personally think a move to ebook readers is enough to force the publishing industry to change &#8211; thus far publishers have managed to fool themselves into thinking ebooks are an extension of the old problem &#8211; the problem they&#8217;ve been set up to solve. </p>
<p>@Jan: Thank you so much for the heads up. MeiLin was the last person to point Baen out to me &#8211; but I had <em>no</em> idea they were this progressive, (and so many years ago, to boot!).</p>
<p>I think the problem with their execution is the lack of technical knowledge? They should&#8217;ve hired a bunch of programmers to do stuff for them &#8211; Baen&#8217;s well positioned to be the next Tor.com, if they play their cards right.</p>
<p>Will keep them in mind when and if we need to cut deals, in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Jan Oda</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5242</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan Oda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5242</guid>
		<description>Great points.
Have no time to respond properly, but I wanted to point out Baen publishing. They have a Free Library (http://www.baen.com/library/) which I think is a GREAT idea for a publisher (bar the awful website design that is). They also have webscriptions (http://www.webscription.net) which serializes novels prior publishing date, so readers can read them in front. What I find most interesting is that the webscription thing dates from 1999 (!!!) and that the Free Library was already around in 2000 (maybe earlier, but don&#039;t have time to properly investigate).

It&#039;s not one of the big publishers I realize, but it is fairly big in the SF market (somewhere in the top 10 in the US according to Wikipedia)

It obviously works great for them, so I wonder why no one else (except maybe for Harlequin, which has had a very active, prominent and cheap digital branch for years now) has jumped on this system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great points.<br />
Have no time to respond properly, but I wanted to point out Baen publishing. They have a Free Library (<a href="http://www.baen.com/library/" rel="nofollow">http://www.baen.com/library/</a>) which I think is a GREAT idea for a publisher (bar the awful website design that is). They also have webscriptions (<a href="http://www.webscription.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.webscription.net</a>) which serializes novels prior publishing date, so readers can read them in front. What I find most interesting is that the webscription thing dates from 1999 (!!!) and that the Free Library was already around in 2000 (maybe earlier, but don&#8217;t have time to properly investigate).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not one of the big publishers I realize, but it is fairly big in the SF market (somewhere in the top 10 in the US according to Wikipedia)</p>
<p>It obviously works great for them, so I wonder why no one else (except maybe for Harlequin, which has had a very active, prominent and cheap digital branch for years now) has jumped on this system.</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5240</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5240</guid>
		<description>Apple has certainly started strong with the iPad.  Estimates are that in the first month they have sold 1 million iPads and are delaying launch of the International versions because of supply issues.  iBooks and the iBookstore are key selling features of the iPad.  The ebook industry just got a major bell ringing.  Although &quot;geeks&quot; have known about ebooks for years, the general public has not.  The iPad has begun to enlighten the general public to the existence of them.  This I believe is the proverbial straw to the  publishing industry camel&#039;s back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apple has certainly started strong with the iPad.  Estimates are that in the first month they have sold 1 million iPads and are delaying launch of the International versions because of supply issues.  iBooks and the iBookstore are key selling features of the iPad.  The ebook industry just got a major bell ringing.  Although &#8220;geeks&#8221; have known about ebooks for years, the general public has not.  The iPad has begun to enlighten the general public to the existence of them.  This I believe is the proverbial straw to the  publishing industry camel&#8217;s back.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5238</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:40:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5238</guid>
		<description>Would point to video as well as an example of empowered publishers. Youtube etc has changed the game for small time video publishers. 

So do we need a youbook or a blogger for books?

I guess these old industries are just really following the old mantra of &quot;if it&#039;s not broke don&#039;t fix it&quot;. If can get a high enough move to eBook readers old industry will be forced to move, but until then it&#039;s the status quo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would point to video as well as an example of empowered publishers. Youtube etc has changed the game for small time video publishers. </p>
<p>So do we need a youbook or a blogger for books?</p>
<p>I guess these old industries are just really following the old mantra of &#8220;if it&#8217;s not broke don&#8217;t fix it&#8221;. If can get a high enough move to eBook readers old industry will be forced to move, but until then it&#8217;s the status quo</p>
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		<title>By: Derek</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5237</link>
		<dc:creator>Derek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5237</guid>
		<description>Wow that&#039;s one hell of an essay! It looks like the content of this one&#039;s been swimming around in your head for a few years.  Really looking forward to peeking into the world of Pandamian more!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow that&#8217;s one hell of an essay! It looks like the content of this one&#8217;s been swimming around in your head for a few years.  Really looking forward to peeking into the world of Pandamian more!</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy Brauer</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5236</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy Brauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 14:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5236</guid>
		<description>I couldn&#039;t agree more, Eli.  Well said.  

Since you mentioned Shirky above, I presume you read this blog post:  The Collapse of Complex Business Models
http://www.shirky.com/weblog/2010/04/the-collapse-of-complex-business-models/

Explains a lot, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more, Eli.  Well said.  </p>
<p>Since you mentioned Shirky above, I presume you read this blog post:  The Collapse of Complex Business Models<br />
<a href="http://www.shirky.com/weblog/2010/04/the-collapse-of-complex-business-models/" rel="nofollow">http://www.shirky.com/weblog/2010/04/the-collapse-of-complex-business-models/</a></p>
<p>Explains a lot, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Eli James</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5229</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5229</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re welcomed, Gavin. We&#039;ve got a lot of work to do, on Pandamian, and so I&#039;m writing a bunch of things to examine some of the decisions we&#039;ve been making.

So far - I think - they make sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re welcomed, Gavin. We&#8217;ve got a lot of work to do, on Pandamian, and so I&#8217;m writing a bunch of things to examine some of the decisions we&#8217;ve been making.</p>
<p>So far &#8211; I think &#8211; they make sense.</p>
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		<title>By: G.S. Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.novelr.com/2010/04/20/to-change-publishing-make-publishers-obsolete/comment-page-1#comment-5226</link>
		<dc:creator>G.S. Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 12:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.novelr.com/?p=1936#comment-5226</guid>
		<description>THIS is what I&#039;ve been saying.  Thank you Eli!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THIS is what I&#8217;ve been saying.  Thank you Eli!</p>
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